Daniel Martin-McCormick is an artist and performer from Washington DC. He’s played in bands like Black Eyes and Mi Ami, and performs electronic music under the pseudonym Relaxer.
Tiago Woodyard: All right. So I guess first of all, for the viewers, what’s your name?
Daniel: My name is Daniel Martin McCormick. I perform as Relaxer, and I also play in the band Black Eyes.
TW You were raised in D.C., right?
DMM Yes.
TW And you’re now in New York?
DMM [Yes] I was raised in Northwest DC.
TW So I guess across your career, how have moves to different cities like San Francisco affected you artistically? And how has restarting socially, how has that impacted you?
DMM Yeah, that’s a good question. I mean, so when I was growing up in D.C., the entry into a musical community was very easy. There’s an all-ages structure to shows, and I started going to shows when I was 14 years old. And pretty quickly, as soon as I found local artists, people who weren’t touring, who were playing smaller shows that were primarily for the scene, I met people. And I think that being young and excited and creative, people were charmed by that. There’s a young, precocious kid. And I felt very welcomed to participate and to start playing and performing and collaborating. And in that sense, I feel very, very lucky. I met some people who I still play with to this day, the people in Black Eyes and some artists, the people in Q and not U, who at that point were just kind of getting going as a band. And I’m still in touch with those people today.
TW Yeah, I love that band.
DMM Yeah, and I just learned so much about being an artist and what performance was and how to collaborate and how to set up your gear and pick a guitar. I don’t know, hold a microphone and book a show. And it’s a crazy amount of osmosis that you’re taking in when you’re just throwing yourself into something like that.
And so by the time Black Eyes had formed in 2001, I felt very, very comfortable and at home in the music scene. And that gave me a lot of courage personally and then the collaborators with people I had been playing with and knowing them for a few years. And just meeting people through that, it was a small scene, but a healthy scene. So everybody kind of knew everybody. It was kind of the perfect size where there was, I don’t know, maybe it felt like maybe there was like 80 people who were really, really in it. And you’d kind of meet them all and you’d interact with them all and you’d see their bands play. And that was great.
When I moved to California, I moved there in 2005 because I wanted a bit of adventure and something different. It was at a point when a lot of people started moving out of D.C. And, you know, I think that was tough for the people who stayed. And, you know, I think that it’s like, you speak with people about it, it was a contentious time. But I participated in this sort of substantial exodus. And when I got to San Francisco, it was very challenging. I really didn’t realize how much support and how many resources and how much community I had in Washington until I left. I just had pretty much taken it for granted. I was 21, and so, you know, it was kind of the first time experiencing something like that. And it took me a while to find community.
It really opened up when I met my friend Damon, Damon Palermo, and he and I started a band called Mi Ami. And we were both, like, looking for something. And I think we found it in each other in our collaboration. And I think we also found a lot of strengths in the friendship, in having a band, and having something that we could devote ourselves to that felt, you know, we were really excited about it, and we were excited to share it, and we were passionate about playing. And that helped us kind of reach out and find more people. I was personally, before that, really struggling, kind of cracking the nut of getting into a new scene where I wasn’t so known. You know, I just had really been known to people through growing up in D.C. And so over a few years, we went pretty hard in that band. We’ve toured a lot. We played a lot. We worked a lot and accomplished a lot. I was very proud of it.
And at a certain point, my girlfriend at the time was moving to New York, and I once again wanted an adventure. You know, San Francisco was also kind of a small scene and also a healthy scene, but it felt also kind of like, you know, once again, people were kind of moving out to New York or L.A. just to try their hand at the big city. And I thought, okay, I’ll do the same.
Coming here, it’s a really different dynamic. There’s so much going on. But I did have a bunch of friends who were already here, and so that gave me a more comfortable foothold. And I’ve really enjoyed living here. And I think that, you know, the sort of blessing and the curse of a city like New York, or maybe just of New York in specific, is that it is so big. There’s kind of no ceiling for what you could accomplish in theory, and it’s so wide culturally that there’s room for every tiny little subculture that you might want. You know, there’s multiple vaporwave scenes or whatever, you know, and hyperpop scenes and punk scenes and hardcore scenes and post-punk scenes and noise scenes and ambient scenes and modern dance scenes and movement arts scenes.
And, you know, so there’s just a lot that you can participate in more than any one person ever could really, like, take on. And so if you want to do something, there’s a place for it to happen here and to grow. And that’s been really great in terms of, like, developing things like the music festival I work on, Dripping, which is something that really couldn’t happen outside of New York, I think.
TW Yeah, I mean, it’s, yeah, right now I’m in Arlington, so I’m not in Washington, D.C. proper, but I’m sort of seeing a bit of a scene form, at least at this one alternative school, H.B. Woodlawn, because they have, like, a history, like, Minor Threat played a show there once. Yeah. And so now they’ve built up, like, a twice-yearly festival thing where the students are encouraged to play in bands.
DMM Oh, that’s cool. Yeah, that’s great.
TW One of my bandmates goes to that school, so I’ll be playing at their concert.
DMM Which band is this?
TW We’ve yet to really name ourselves. I think we might be called Syd’s Lunch, but who knows. But yeah, I guess on to the next one. This is a bit of a weird question, but I guess it has to do with bands breaking up in general. I guess a legacy band like the Rolling Stones, do you think in general bands should break up? Just like to augment the creative evolution of each of the members, or do you think they should just trudge along like a money-making touring machine? Because I feel like those are the two most common paths.
DMM Well, perhaps. I think that that binary, I object in general to binaries, so I think that I’ll just speak from my own experience. When Black Eyes broke up, I had the feeling that I wanted to enhance my creative horizons or whatever. And that the group, you know, we had done so much, and we were at some loggerheads internally, and time to move on. And, you know, I think that that point of view was only accurate in that it diagnosed a few problems, but it didn’t offer too many solutions, you know.
And I think I was rooted in the expectation that things for the band, that things had gone well for the band, and that they would go well, you know, in the same way, at the same degree, that I would have the same success in all future projects. It was sort of, you know, I had a sense of entitlement, perhaps, or great expectations. And that, you know, what I regret about that decision and what’s been very healing about playing together again is that, you know, the decision to end the band, you know, we might have ended it anyways. Who knows? Whatever. And it wasn’t completely my decision, but my attitude. My attitude wasn’t informed with any sense of gratitude, appreciation, perspective, acknowledgement of what’s special.
So we had been very active for a few years. We’ve been active in bands before Black Eyes started with each other in different formations. We’ve been active for two and a half years. We had toured relentlessly. And what I didn’t say was, this is special. My dream of music has come to fruition. My dream of being on Dischord, fantasy of being on Dischord, has been granted me. I am in this group. We can do many things together. We have a special sound we make that’s just ours. And our hard work, you know, has taken us to places that, you know, are remarkable. I never thought those thoughts. Those thoughts didn’t occur to me. All I thought about was the frustration and the critiques.
So I think, you know, if a band is at an impasse and really can’t work it out and they’ve achieved what they need to achieve creatively, perhaps disbanding, perhaps hiatus, you know, whatever. But I don’t think there’s any honor in breaking up. I used to think that, you know, nothing was cooler than having, you know, two great seven inches and then [that’s it]. Because that suggested, you know, like almost a withholding. Like you’re so cool. You know, you don’t play…whatever. But that’s not a recipe for a real life in music.
And the musicians I admire the most are the artists who grow and overcome. And you can’t do that if you just blow everything up, you know. If you’re always blowing it up and starting from zero, you can only get so far. And one of the really great challenges of being an artist is after you’ve hit liftoff. And so, again, with a band like Black Eyes, we worked super hard and we got liftoff and then it was kind of like, well, what do we do now, you know? And I’ve experienced that with other projects where you work very, very hard, you get a certain momentum, and then you have a new challenge. You’ve gone farther than you expected to go. You’ve gone farther than you ever really considered, and now you have to navigate. You’ve kind of gotten out into open space. And if you get addicted to the lift-off, then you kind of doom yourself to a certain smallness.
But there’s great examples of groups who were able to push through and find something past that first barnstorming, first adrenaline rush excitement of beginning. And I think it’s quite remarkable when groups can have a beginning, a middle, and then at a certain point, it will end. And I think there are probably examples of groups where they’re not as cool as they used to be, or they’re not as vibrant as they used to be.
But on the other hand, it’s really easy to say, oh, this or that other band, they’re just cashing in or whatever. And I’m like, well, maybe they like playing that music together. People like hearing it. It doesn’t really hurt anyone for people to continue to play together. And I think that being overly dogmatic or overly prescriptive about what people are doing with their own music that they’ve written is a bit hollow. And it’s kind of an easy armchair diss that usually speaks to someone’s closed-mindedness and I’d say also lack of experience because I don’t hear those critiques from people who are out there doing it. I mostly hear them from people who are at home.
TW Yeah, I mean, there’s still bands that I really like that are still going on. Yeah. Like Pearl Jam, for example. Their new stuff isn’t the greatest, but I can still appreciate their older stuff.
DMM You know, I agree. There’s artists, some of my favorite artists, they put out a new record and I might check it out and it might be cool, but it doesn’t have that same resonance for me that their record from 1997 did or whatever it is. That’s just where I’m at as an audience member.
I’m on both sides of the table. I’ve been making art for 25 years and I’m grateful that anybody has paid attention to any of it. And for some people, they really like some of it. And they’re not required to care about what I’m working on today. I can’t demand that of them and I can’t expect that of them. And I hope that just the stuff I’m working on today finds resonance with some people. And yeah, it’s a journey, you know?
TW Yeah, and I also think, just coming to this conclusion, that maybe some people might feel entitled to have good music come from certain artists as if it’s their right to get the good music constantly from the same people.
DMM Sure, yeah. And I think going back to bands breaking up, I would just say, if what I try to practice now is you can always break up, right? You can always end it. That is a given and that’s your right. But I would suggest, if anybody was asking my advice, that before you break up, pause and see if there are other solutions. If the dynamic is too toxic, too fraught, if there’s too much frustration, if you hate the music, fine, walk away, whatever. You can do that and that’s fair. But if there’s something there that’s worth preserving, just have a look and see.
When Black Eyes broke up, we had toured, we played 120 shows in 2003. So that’s a show for every three days. And we toured from late August through mid-December with functionally no break. We came back and we recorded Cough and then a little bit later we broke up. And I think, you know, it didn’t really occur to me at that point that we might be exhausted. And we might need to pause and maybe take two months off, not do too much, absorb some new ideas, try a few things, hang out with our partners, cook, whatever. You know, we’ve just been doing it so hard that the idea of shifting any energy around, it just was alien to us. And it seemed like it had to be all or nothing. And, you know, if I could go back and talk to myself, then I would just say, go relax a bit, you know, like pause, like go to hang out in a jacuzzi or something for a second, you know, relaxer. You know, just take a minute to unwind from the amount of huge push you just did. And then see if you want to come back in and see what surfaces, you know.
TW All right. Let’s see what else I have here. Oh, yeah. Speaking of Relaxer and your electronic stuff, do you ever plan to add vocals to that? I mean, I’m not opposed to completely instrumental stuff.
DMM No, yeah, it’s a good question. I mean, I’ve done some vocals for the more kind of ambient experimental work under relaxer alias. There’s two records:
One’s called In Softening Air, The other one is called Force Field: A Guide for the Perplexed.
And they both have kind of spoken word vocals. But I actually am working on a new project that is called Cry. It’s a duo with the hardcore producer Killborn. And we are playing our first show on Thursday and we are both doing vocals in that. And it’s more in the punk style, you might say. And I’m really excited about it. And it’s been really fun working on vocals with the heavy kick drums and stuff like that of techno. You know, it’s something that I’ve just really like struggled to work in over the years and I haven’t wanted to force it. But this is like the first time that it’s feeling natural. And I think I’m excited to get those tracks recorded and worked out and performed.
TW Cool. Yeah. I guess any plans for Black Eyes in the near future?
DMM Yeah, I mean, we’re continuing to play. And we’re writing. And, you know, so there’ll be more info on that. We just did three shows of the East Coast and we performed six new songs at those shows. I’m very happy with them. And we’re playing elsewhere this year. We’re playing in Denver at a festival there called Ghost Canyon. And then we’ll have more shows later this year and early next year that we’re going to announce soon. But Black Eyes is active. I mean, we are practicing, we’re writing, we’re playing shows when we are able to. So, yeah.
TW Yeah. From other interviews I’ve gathered that you’re all over the U.S., so it’s kind of hard to be as active as you were in 2003.
DMM Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, one of our members lives in Texas. He’s moving back to D.C. this summer. And that’ll get everyone at least on the East Coast. But, you know, there’s two parents in the band and everybody has, you know, more like real jobs that have real demands on their time. So it’s something that we are able to work on. And, you know, working on the band is very exciting and we’re very energized by it. And the practices are energetic and the shows are energetic. And I feel like the commitment is there, but it’s just a different world we’re operating in. You know, I really am grateful we had that time when we were younger where…you could just leave it for three months to go tour. You know, and like I think like I wouldn’t really trade that for anything. And now I’m just very happy we get to play together again. And our commitment to it is, you know, strong. I mean, we work on the music together. We work on it when we’re apart. We talk every day. So there’s a constant energy around it. But it’s just, you know,we can only end up doing about six or eight shows a year, you know, just because of our lives.
TW You mentioned the six new songs. If you do end up, I mean, you probably will record them at some point or another, but if you do end up recording them, do you think working with Don and Ian again is a possibility?
DMM Yeah. Well, Don is not… Don Ziantara is not… He doesn’t have the same space that he did when we were tracking. So his current studio is, as you know… (TW: In my neighborhood). Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve never seen it, but I’ve heard it’s quite small and our setup is quite large…It’s apparently a very small room.
Don is an incredible engineer. I will say working with Don was one of the… Don and Ian as a team is one of the great pleasures of my life. I mean, they have an amazing dynamic that is so deep and Don’s approach, his ear, his thoughtfulness, his like calm demeanor and his extremely non-judgmental approach. Like he’s very open to whatever you’re doing and he really won’t… He will not produce your session. It’s incredible. You’ll say like, well, what did you think about that? He said, well, what do you think about that? And he really puts it back in your court.
And, you know, that I think is part of the reason why he and Ian struck such a bond when they first met was because Teen Idles and those guys, early Dischord bands, were looking to record and it was a pretty hostile environment. A lot of studios had attitudes about, you know, how you were supposed to record, how you were supposed to sound, professionals and blah, blah. And there’d be these horrible stories of being laughed at by the engineer and stuff like that.
And Don is 100% committed to bringing your vision to life. And the only thing that’s going to be a problem is if you don’t know what your vision is. And then that’ll show, you know. But yeah, I loved working with them. It was so special and a real pleasure, real honor and a real joy.
TW Yeah. Speaking from just being in that live room in his basement, I do think like at least one of you, maybe Hugh would need to step outside. Because it’s a really small room.
DMM But, you know, he’s gotten amazing sounding recordings in that room. I mean, Black Dots by Bad Brains, I think Minor Threat, like those records sound incredible. And, you know, they sound like very, very clear and impactful capture of these like amazing bands. It was great.
TW Yeah. All right. Let me see what else I have. Oh, this is a funny one. Do you have, what’s your favorite restaurant in the D.C. area?
DMM Well, there’s a couple. My favorite, one of my favorites is closed. New Orleans Cafe on 18th Street was a favorite for many years. They had great beignets and New Orleans food. But I’m a big Vace’s fan on Connecticut [Avenue]. The pizza slice spot right by the, was it Avalon Theater? Is that the one on Cleveland Park? Maybe. Yeah, it’s right by the Cleveland Park subway. And Vace’s is amazing. Rep it for life.
I don’t have a single favorite Ethiopian spot. The Ethiopian food in D.C. is very special. And, you know, there’s actually a place when we practice at Hugh’s house, he lives in Silver Spring, so we eat dinner nearby. And there’s a place that is Indian and Ethiopian, not really fusion, just both. Both are really good. And the Ethiopian in particular is quite strong. That’s not my pick as like the best one, but it’s always like a great treat to get some of that Ethiopian food.
TW Yeah, Ethiopian food is great. There’s one on Columbia Pike in Arlington (Dama). It’s super fun…So I guess with the last two questions, do you have any funny or odd tour stories from any of your projects? And after that, what’s a book that you’re reading or would recommend?
DMM There are many funny touring stories. I’m trying to think of one that would be useful to people.
TW A fable, if you will.
DMM Well, you know, I mean, I think that, you know, I will say like the best way to tour is with good communication and a bit of humility. You know, you’re dealing with a lot of moving parts and you got to have your head together.
There’s been some times where I’ve been living a little more chaotically and had, you know, disputes or arguments with the booker because we were quite late to the show or this and that. And I think like also just going into places where you’re not really like prepared for the environment. Like I was totally just not paying attention when I toured China and I drank some tap water that really messed me up and later found out that it was being, you know, partially sourced from a river nearby that had a problem with people dumping infected pig carcasses in the river.
So I mean, I think like just showing up with your head on straight and being ready to like, you know, not act a fool and deal with people in a calm and respectful way is going to be the best result. Like I’ve tried it both ways and yeah, there’s too many individual stories to tell, but I’ll leave it at that.
I mean, a book right now I’m reading a new translation of The Castle by Franz Kafka, which is a book that I’ve never finished and he never finished writing it and I’ve never finished reading it. But I’m working on it now and it’s very strange, very dreamlike and kind of confusing but fascinating. And I would recommend it. It takes a bit of patience, but it’s also kind of hypnotic. And yeah, so I’d recommend that.
I’m also reading this publisher called Blank Forms did a compendium of this free jazz zine that Amiri Baraka and Milford Graves and some other people worked on in the 60s and early 70s called The Cricket. And that’s some of my favorite music is early free jazz. I mean, free jazz from any era, but the sort of foundational stuff is music that was so powerful and so committed.
Hearing people talk about it in real time, these documents of people’s ideas and political philosophies and artistic philosophies and their attitude towards releasing their music and labels and the economics of it and all this kind of stuff. Really powerful. So if you can get your hands on a copy of The Cricket anthology put out by Blank Forms, I’d also really recommend that.
TW Okay. Well, thank you so much for doing this interview.
DMM Cool. Thanks for having me. Sorry I had to start on the train. Apologies for that.
TW It’s a change of scenery.
DMM Yeah, cool. Well, maybe I’ll see you at some of the DC shows in the future or whatever.
TW Yeah. I’m going to try and start volunteering at Rhizome soon.
DMM Oh, great. Fantastic. Beautiful. Good luck with that.